Having a 9c capital vs a 15c capital.
There are alot of good arguments put forward to support having either a 9c capital of a 15c capital. Most experienced players argue vigilantly that 9c is the best choice of a capital for new and inexperienced players.
While theres lots of good supporting arguments for both 9c or 15c as capitals, what is often not argued is WHEN a capital should be settled, and when it should be changed and become the official capital.
I honestly believe that in nearly all circumstances, that a 15c is the ideal choice of capital for new players, but only if they settle it at the appropriate time when there account can support it.
Possibly the biggest misinterpretations that takes place in a 9c vs 15c argument is that:
1.Your second village doesnt have to be your future capital
2.You dont have to change capitals as soon as you settle your future capital
3.The lack or resources tile in a 15c can be compensated by building multiple 6c's as supply villages before you settle a 15c.
4.New players, or low experience players, (for whom the entire argument of 9c vs 15c is for) see the arguments as to why 15c's are soo hard and then decide that the arguments mean that they should not have any 15c's at all.
Ill agree that under a few circumstances that a 9c capital could be ideal. But I truly believe that for most accounts, be it non-gold or low active, should have a 15c. But a 15c should be settled at the appropriate time based on the players experience, start time on the server, gold usage, activity levels and so on.
Alot of experienced players would say that 9c capitals are suitable for players who:
1.Might lack in experienced
2.Might not use gold
3.Might not have a lot of online time
4.Might not have duals
5.Might not have sitters
6.Might not have time to trade
7.Might not have had a 15c before
8.Might have started late
9.Might not be raiding (or will be raiding on an short term basis)
10.Might be just after an easy game.
Now they are all valid concerns, but we have to look at the big picture. And that is that 15c's can produce more crop, and feed more troops then a 9c.
First, ill show how one might start an account and approach the issue of whento settle a 15c.
Choosing your 2nd, 3rd and 4th vills.
For the majority of accounts that are non-raiding (or not raiding heavily or consistently raiding). They will need to extend their resource base before taking a capital. Their 2nd, 3rd and 4th vills could easily and happily be 6c, 7c, 9c → none of them have to be your capital, but the option is there to make any of them a capital.
Depending on whats available in your area, its a good idea to try to settle a 9c as your second village, (or at the very least, you should have a 9c as one of your first 4 villages). Try to take one that has 2 oasis with the 2 highest oasis that you can find, again, this does not have to be your capital. This gives you a good village (great for anvils, or great even as a hammer village) that has the option of becoming your capital. Your accounts 5th village should be a 15c, the downside of waiting this long to settle is that the ideal 15c's wont be there by the time you are ready. You would have to settle for a 15c with low oasis and one thats a bit further away from where you spawned.
When to settle a 15c.
The biggest worry is that if you listen to me and delay getting a 15c until your 5th village that you will possibly lose all decent nearby 15c's to someone else. 15C's DO need a lot of resources. So heres a quick test to see if your ready for a 15c. Add up all of the timber, clay and iron that your account makes per hour. The minimum (IMO) is 2500 timber, 2500 clay, 2000 iron(more iron if your roman and too lazy to trade for it).
Now you can see that on a laid back account, with no gold, at 4 villages you can easily support a 15c. Accounts that raid heavily, or use gold, will have the resources they need to support a 15c earlier.
Likewise, if your really not ready to make a 15c as your 5th you can always delay settling it until you feel you have the resource backing to develop it.
How to develop a 15c.
I keep saying that you should take a 15c as your 5th village for a few different reasons. For a laid back, non-gold account, If you have 4 villages that are 6c, when they are fully developed you should be able to produce over 700 phals per day and use your 15c as troop storage. (I mentioned above that the min to settle a 15c is 2500 clay per hours, thats a potential 461 phals per day, that means you can produce troops faster then you can upgrade crop tiles), So when you start the 15c, if you were to focus heavily on main building, warehouse, granary, and then crop tiles, and with your other villages you build phals and send to reinforce the 15c.
With this setup, there is no need to npc crop to res, there is no excess crop. Its not hard, as you have 4 resource villages able to supply res, the hardest thing is to send resources to yourself, and really thats a skill that hopefully you gain when you get your second village.
Just keep crop in the 15c over 100, and each time you increase the crop output in your capital, you should match that with an increase in troops. If all of your troops get wiped, then dont waste res upgrading crop tiles, focus on troops for a few days and only extend crop tiles based on your accounts position and need for crop.
Other notes about developing a 15c. (or any capital for that matter)
In a 15c capital, theres a few rules:
You should never build the iron foundry, brickyard or sawmill.
You should never builds crannies (im allowed to smack you if you do this)
You should never build settlers.
Look at the list of arguments of who 9c capitals are suitable for (ie non gold, low actives) for these almost identical reasons are the basis of the arguments supporting having a capital hammer vs a non-capital hammer.
I recommend, that when players settle their intended capital, that they dont make settlers in it, but try to instead go back to one of their earlier villages and build a level 15 palace or a level 20 residence. Doing this is expensive, which is why its good to settle your capital as a 4th or 5th village.
Regardless if its a 9c capital or a 15c capital, if its going to be your hammer village, its good to try to keep all expansion slots open.
When to change capitals.
Changing your capital as soon as you settle is not advisable. Its a good idea to change:
3a) If you are being chiefted, it may be advisable to change your capital to prevent the village under attack being chiefted
3b) If you are being catapulted, changing capitals and building the stone mason 'may' help you survive. ('may' means if you dont have troops to defend, stonemason or not your in trouble)
3c) Most players change capitals so that they can extend the crop tiles past level 10. (duh!)If this is the case then there is no point to change capitals UNTIL all the crop tiles in your future capital ARE level 10, and the bakery and grain mill have been built, AND you have taken at least one 25% crop oaisis. AND you have a whole stack of troops and continuously building more troops.
(Note that once you start building level 11 crop tiles in my 15c capital, you can no longer do options 3a and 3b.)
Heres a quick example of a laid back defense account.
While one of the arguments is that the player might be low active, in any decent alliance, they will have to stay green dot (account must be active daily) or they will face eviction from their alliance. Alliances that allow red, yellows (inactives) isnt an alliance able to support them, and defend them, and the player is sure to become a farm or to be chieftained. So for this, I will assume its a low active account, thats green dot.
Lets say that its approaching endgame, and the player started close to the server start. An average account could quite easily reach 8 villages by endgame. Being a laid back account, the capital crop tiles wont be very high. For this estimate, ive estimated that each village is an average of 500 pop (which is a low, I probly should have estimated it as being 800 pop)
Now lets assume that all the villages have level 10 tiles, with all relevant factories, Lets say that the 15c capital has level 12 crop tiles and a 50% crop bonus.
The other villages the account has are:
6c spawn (4,4,4,6),
4 villages are 6c, (4,5,3,6)
2 villages are 6c, (5,4,3,6)
With the entire account wide resources (and with NO trading and NO gold whatsoever!) the account can produce (or at least fund the production of ) 672 phals AND 312 druid riders per day→ essentially within 16 days they will max out ALL crop across ALL villages and have 19,850 troops.
Now if the same player had instead a 9c capital (with same 50% crop bonus). It would have a different outcome.
Cost to build the crop tiles from level 0 to level 12 in a 15c capital is, 1,056,675. to build the crop tiles in a 9c capital from level 0 to level 13 costs 1,058,760.
The 9c produces extra timber, clay and iron → STILL with no trading and no npc, we can then produce an estimated 696 phals and 312 druid riders per day. With full production its under 13 days that the account runs out of crop, with a max total of 17,510 in troops.
Its not a massive difference, but with a 15c, you will have more crop, more crop = more troops = more fun. Its also cheaper and faster to extend the crop tiles in a 15c then the 9c, so in the above table, the 15c holder would be able to extend crop tiles and troops at a fast pace, the 9c holder would have to work harder as the 9c upgrades are more costly and take longer, essentially the 9c holder without gold is screwed at this stage as the higher tiles would take nearly double what an equivalent 15c does.
Time is a very critical resources in the game, and by looking at the chart its clear that only gold users should have a 9c.
(I should also mention that having 6 villages out of 8 as special 4,5,3,6 or as 5,4,3,6 is NOT advisable as you will need iron for crop tiles. Part of the reason that I choose 4,5,3,6 and 5,4,3,6 in the example is that IF a player has a 4,4,4,6 and has a 25% clay oasis or (which is a realistic scenario) it will have the same clay output as a 4,5,3,6. likewise a 4,4,4,6 with a 25% timber oasis will have the same timber output as a 5,4,3,6. )
So a quick summary of 3 pages of ramblings is:
Settle a 15c when your ready and have sufficient resource income to support it, dont make it a capital until your ready to extend crop tiles past 10. Store defense (or offense) in your capital so that crop is easy to manage and maintain.
Direct comparisons of crop output of 15c vs 9c capitals.
(times are based on L20 MB)
In this instance, BOTH capitals have bakery and grain mill (no oasis). The 15c has level 10 crop tiles. For the 9c to match the crop output of a NATURAL 15c with level 10 tiles, the 9c has to build 4 X L11 crop tiles and 5 X L12 croptiles
Having a 9c match the crop output of a 15c is nothing IMO. However, I consider having a capital produce 20k output to be a major achievement to most players.
So for this next example, lets compare a 9c with 50% crop oasis and a 15c with 50% crop oasis.
To reach 20k output the 9c will need to build 5 level 16 tiles and 4 level 17 tiles (will also need 5 warehouses and 1 granary to reach this task). The 15c would need to build 11 level 14 crop tiles and 4 level 15 crop tiles.
Factoring in the extra resources needed for the extra 3 warehouses (15c needed 2, the 9c needs 5) the 15c then comes to a resources savings of 3,548,775, and a time saving 1103.8hours. (thats 46 days)
Lets look at what a saving of 3,548,775 resources can potentially fund.
IMPS cost 600 each. So thats: 5914 imps
Clubbs cost 250 each. So thats: 14,195 clubs.
Phals cost 315 each. So thats: 11,265 phals.
As you can see, a 9c capital would need an extra 46 days work to reach just 20k output. For a low active account, or non-gold or for someone who started late, your going to have a major uphill battle and odds are your just not going to be able to reach 20k output. Time is an important resource in the game, most non-serious players just cant afford to spend 46days burning res on excessively priced croptiles.
I know people are still saying “but 9c's produce more resources” ok, first up, the 9c has 3 times more timber, clay and iron tiles then a 15c. So it will take 3 times longer to get them to level 10 (compared to a 15c) Keep in mind, the argument is that the player doesnt use any gold, and suddenly you realize its not just 46 days slower to match the output of a 15, if they upgrade all the resource tiles to L10 or higher, it will in fact take them longer then 46 days to reach 20k crop output – thats if they EVER reach it.
Effect that oasis have on the decision to go 9c capital or 15c capital. (why short-mid term players SHOULD consider a 9c)
Oasis do (or at least should) be a major factor to consider when choosing any capital. When you are looking for a capital, of course try to find one that has the highest crop oasis bonus. But dont just look at the total oasis bonus. Look at the highest bonus achieved with just 2 oasis.
For example; Lets say that there are two 15c's within 10 squares of you. BOTH have 75% crop bonus, but one has a 50% crop and a 25% crop oasis (level 15 heros mansion needed) the other one has three 25% crop oasis (level 20 heros mansion needed)
Building a level 15 heros mansion is in reach of just about everyone, and is an expected necessity in any capital. But the cost to upgrade from level 15 to level 20 is very very expensive. Costs of level 16, 17, 18, 19 and 20 is a combined total of 1.6m res.Until you have L19 crop tiles, you wont be able to justify the cost involved with taking a third oasis.
So if your playing long term, always choose the village that has highest oasis bonus (even if it means taking 3 oasis), but when playing short-mid term, (or when looking at a 9c capital), you will only be looking to take 2 oasis, so make sure that its in range of 2 X 50% oasis. (or the best available in the area you plan to settle)
Comparison of a 9c with 100% crop oasis (2x 50%) vs 15c with 75% crop oasis (3x 25%)
OK first of all, while the 15c has 75% crop, as it needed heros mansion level 20 (1.6m res), based on the cost, its just not worth it at this stage, so I based the comparison on the 15c having only 2 x 25% oasis. While STILL long term, a 15c capital with 3 x 25% oasis is worth more then a 100% 9c, but short -mid term (up to around 20k output) a 9c capital with 100% oasis is better then a 15c capital with 3 X 25% oasis.
For the average player (or laid back account) by the time they are ready to settle a 15c capital odds are all the attractive 15c's with high oasis bonus might be taken.
If this is the situation, and especially if the player isnt playing long term, a 9c capital would be ideal.
Capital hammer and max crop outputs.
A capital hammer is the easiest to build, (that is if you want to go offense). Just to give you an idea, a 12+ village gual account can start troop production when the ww's are released and in 2 months produce a 80k+ hammer.
Im not saying that you have to produce an 80k hammer, I want to show how fast it is to build something needing a lot of crop and show the relative maximum crop outputs from a capital.
In this example, lets compare a 15c with 50% crop to a 9c with 50% crop.
A 15c with level 18 tiles, can produce a raw 48,000 crop per hour.
It would need 7 warehouses and 2 granaries. This IS achievable even if you have a capital hammer. (its achievable, though unlikely on a low active account)
A 9c, with level 20 crop tiles, can produce a raw 44,100 crop per hour. It would need 20 warehouses and 5 granaries to get it to this level → essentially its impossible to do this without the GG / GW artifact. The arguments FOR taking a 9c as a capital (new, non-gold, no experience, no duals, low activity levels) are the same arguments ill use to say that a 9c cant reach level 20 tiles.
Again, im not saying that you have to build a massive hammer, or that you have to build a capital producing 10k or 20k or 48k crop. I just want to show that building a hammer is very fast to max out all available crop.
Lets say that a player DID build a capital producing 48k per hour, and they also DID produce a 80k hammer. That still leaves 32,000 troops to feed. A 6c (with no oasis but with grain and bakery) can produce 1800 crop. Lets assume the village pop is 800, that leaves 1000 crop.... so, you'd need 32 X 6c villages.
As you can see, you cant on your own build and store a massive hammer. With travian, you WILL need others to help you, to store troops for you, or you might need to store troops for others. Someone whos not highly active, not using gold, not highly experienced, and not raiding could have the attitude and say, ok, im not taking the server seriously, ill build a 15c, upgrade the tiles a little and offter to help to store my teamates troops?
A good rule of thumb is that alliances support those that support the alliance, so should you choose to support your alliance members and store their troops, your will possibly be looked after in the way of artifacts (gg / gw are handy), gold, res pushes and so on.
Im NOT saying you have to be a troop pool, but im just mentioning that the game play of the serious players is reliant on those that arent taking the server seriously and can store troops for them.
Notes: (where I wrap up my mad ramblings with worse ones)
If your using the gold production bonuses;
If your not playing long term; (ie, wont be building a 3 chieft hammer, wont be playing until endgame, wont be using a GB or GS)
If you can raid a daily;
if you can handle negative crop;
If your active daily;
If you can afford to NPC daily;
If the nearest available 9c has a 2 X 50% oaisis 9c,
If you can afford some gold to instant build 9c crop tiles;
Then a 9c capital could be suitable for you.
For those that are playing mid- long term, and or playing until endgame,
For those that have 4 or more villages, and feel they can have 10 villages before endgame starts,
For those that already have a lot of troops
For those that cant handle or not active enough to handle negative crop
AND for those that dont use gold, you should consider to get a 15c.
Remember, non-golds will be lower on crop. Gold users will have an extra 25% crop in ALL of their villages, and gold users have the ability to NPC res into crop. Running with negative crop is easy for them, whereas non-gold users have to work harder to remain in positive crop.
I dont live by the rule of “everyone must have a 15c”. On a recent server, we opened only 6c's and just focused on troops, reinforced our mates and just built troops. Was loads of fun, was a low active and easy maintainece account. When I play for a quick game my theory is, why extend crop so that you can store troops for later when you can use them and have some fun now?
If you want to check my calculations in this thread then feel free to download and use my spreadsheets. (They will be available for at least a month until my account expires.)
All Spreadsheets are in open office format. (may cause issues for Microsoft excel users)
With my spreadsheets, Bright yellow = user input fields.
All my spreadsheets are poorly done, but might be useful.
Here are the direct links to download the spreadsheets:
Advanced gual hammer and anvil and village setup calculator.
Has 3 sheets setup for each tribe. Sheet 1 is gual, sheet 2 is tueton, sheet 3 is roman.
start by typing in how many vills you have of each village type
set what level your croptiles are at (works even if you have them at different levels)
the calculator only allows for 24/7 troop building. So next;
setup (or configure) up to 3 different troop building setups. You can only select one troop to build from the barracks and one from the stables at a time, but gives you the choice of all troops to choose from. To select the troop you want to build, put a 1 in the yellow box next to it. “1” means to build, 0 means not to build.
For cats and ram, you can build rams only 24/7 or cats only 24/7 by putting a “1” next to it. Or you can put in (for example) rams = 1 cats = 5 and the spreadsheet will build the rams at a ratio of 1/6 and the cats at a ratio of 5/6
As the spreadsheet allows for up to 3 different setups, you could have for example:
setup 1: producing phals and druidriders
setup 2: producing phals
setup 3: producing swords and tt's rams 1/100 ration cats 99/100 ratio
For each setup; An estimator will (based on your accounts timber, clay, iron and crop) say approx how many villages can potentially run that setup.
You can then indicate how many villages will be running that setup (ie, perhaps 3 villages will be running setup 2, and 2 villages running setup 3.
The Spreadsheet then gives you an indicator if your account can run that many setups in that many villages based on your current accounts resource production levels. It also gives you an indication of how many troops you can build before you max out crop.
Crop tile output time and res cost calculator (gives various crop outputs for mixmatched crop tile levels. It also gives the cost in total combined resources and in hours to build from level 0 to the levels that you indicate. Works for any number of crop tiles, be it 6c, 7c, 9c, 15c) http://TravianSpreadsheets.fileave.com/Crop tile ouput time and res cost calculator.ods
heros mansion level 15-20.
http://TravianSpreadsheets.fileave.com/heros masion level 15-20.ods
(this is set up for heros mansion levels 15-20 but is useful to set up to calculate cost to upgrade any building)
Example of basic def account spreadsheets http://TravianSpreadsheets.fileave.c...tput fixed.ods
(shockingly bad spreadsheet, absolutely dreadful, but I did use it ages ago when I first did tried to prove the benefits of a 15c over a 9c.